John Hawkins’ mirthful gays “CHOOSE” fallacy

You know, you find an article that makes you tear your hair out and then it makes you laugh. Giggle at least. The discovery of “bisexuals” by John Hawkins in this article:

is one such moment. I’ve been analyzing his fine words because he is apparently some major thinker on the subject. He seems quite sure of himself so he’s obviously pondered the issue. He’s pondered himself straight into a major confusion over gay men and “bisexuals.” And it’s just so funny to see his perplexity so clearly – and yet he remains so clueless of it. Astonishing. Let’s go make merry with Mr. Hawkins, ’tis the season. The Supreme Court is set to hear our cases. His words in italics, mine in regular. And I’ve split up his paragraphs to make it easier.

2) Some people do choose to be gay: Most Americans tend to believe that people who are gay either choose it OR are born that way.

First a declarative statement – any evidence presented? No. Then he segues to an idea so demonstrably untrue I can’t believe anyone who has pondered what “most Americans tend to believe” about gay men and the rest of the “LGBT(ITSQAGNC ever-growing community” is so convoluted that to divide it into an “OR” statement is absurd. Sir, have you ever read the comments on a dinky sized Facebook thread about why people are “gay”? Hell, all the people on the ever-growing list are said to be gay – but then there’s just the “homosexual man” gay – or the Lesbian “gay” or the “Transgendered” gay (and they are not!) … and so how does Mr. Hawkins use the word? We don’t know. Gay men? Who knows.

Meanwhile – just 20, 30, 40 years ago – it was true that all Americans believed gayness was both a sickness AND a choice at the same time. A sickness from childhood – and a choice in adult hood – At The Same Time … and that percentage has been changing for decades. But 20 and more years ago “born this way” was only uttered by gays – and not one single heterosexual.

However, “most” nothing … on one dinky thread, maybe 20, 30 comments, that I have had, I have seen the following:
Weak, strong, dominate, cloying mother

Weak, absent, abusive father

Hormones: testosterone alone, too much or too little / estrogen, too much, too little / both, too much too little or vice versa. Progesterone … and just plain old “hormones, I don’t know.”
Environment – the word alone – who knows what pieces, parts and parcels – the whole thing.

The youngest boy, but the oldest girl theory.

The molested boy – molested by any old man – molested by the evil gay man … recruited – (how many times a boy must be molested is never said) (the accusation of molesting boys is hurled frequently.)

Pure evil sin choice destructive of all that is holy and good
Sick, demented, deranged, perverse – we are gay because we are these things. How are we sick? We are gay! Why are we gay? We are sick! And around the merry go round we go.
Well, that’s the short list – of all of these come bubbling to the surface with just 10 or 20 heterosexuals – or “most Americans” – almost no one mentions the obscure “germ theory” – but the reality is that every single last academic paper which purports to examine why there are gay men references every single theory on the list – and all are true … they are said to be “just part of the puzzle.”

I have ample evidence: the comments to my article at American Thinker:

If one wants to get a snapshot of what “most Americans tend to believe” there’s a darn good place to start – the comments. I dare say, Mr. Hawkins, simple it is not – about which more anon. Meanwhile, the scientific literature ranges the gamut and all reference the other – it’s “largely unexplained” as the archbishop of the armed forces said. Even NARTH’s “Preventing Homosexuality” lists a good dozen reasons a boy is gay – without even venturing to any others on the ever-growing list in this “community” … of which Mr. Hawkins is suitably vague as to whom exactly he is talking about.

Ah, now we find out! – Mr. Hawkins has discovered the Bisexual. Oh my. What a conundrum. There’s us gay guys – the G .. in LGBT … see – that’s why there’s two letters – one for those of us – the Originals, the bugaboo, the problem – the one who gets all the “radical militant” condemnation … who are “born that way” (can’t we be born “this” way? Sounds nicer, thanks) – anyway – we’re “gay” …

And here’s the Bisexuals:

However, the evidence suggests that there tends to more of a range of sexual behavior for people who are gay. Some people are clearly “born” gay and have always been attracted to the same sex just like most heterosexuals are only interested in contact with the opposite sex. However, there are also people who are more sexually ambiguous and some of them CHOOSE to be gay. If you want to see an actual example of that, here’s an excerpt of an interview I did with lesbian talk show host, Tammy Bruce.
OK then – first – “CHOOSE” – my my, calm down sir. They only “choose” in the sense that, as Gay Men say: “All bisexuals are really gay, and they’ll become gay over time.” That is – it’s a one way street. It is very true, for many factors, mostly to do with the societal approval of heterosexuality and the pressures to be straight, some gay men do start out with girls. And then, as they age, they go full time gay. Do they “choose”? Yes, they chose to try to be straight – but they were really gay from the get go. If they remain “bisexual” then I suppose they could be said to “choose” to be sometimes straight and sometimes gay. They’re “choosing” to be straight just as much as they “choose” to be gay.

Or is Mr. Hawkins saying the default position is heterosexuality and thus the man strays? Of course that’s what he’s thinking, even if he doesn’t say it. It’s obvious – because the entire “choice” or “CHOOSE” argument is based on the presumption that all men are born straight – and somehow the gay man “chooses” to be gay – by simply, irrevocably, rather vocally, overriding the natural, inborn, evolutionary default position of reproductive heterosexuality. (we got powerful minds, to override that, yes?) Indeed, the entirety of all research into gayness is “what went wrong with heterosexuality in the individual homosexual.” It has never been “what went right for the species with homosexuality.”

Now, it just so happens, that I have been compared to Tammy Bruce several times. So, if Hawkins could have a conversation with her, he could with me – I’d be glad to have fun with him. Here is just one email from a major Tea Party blogger to me about her and I:

>>>From: On Mon, 9/6/10, bigfurhat [emails redacted] wrote:

Subject: Re: gay bob, the daily mush

To: “Jim Hlavac”

Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 2:39 PM

I’ve had conversations with Tammy Bruce that sound EXACTLY like what you have written here. I wrestle with the Barney Frank gay meme, thinking that we are inviting gay bashing when we isolate gayness to be ridiculed in our agitprop.

I cringe sometimes at the thought of her reading the blog. Then she’ll go ahead and repost something we published that is on shaky intellectual ground. It’s confusing. [original emphasis] <<<

So, yes, “it’s confusing” to say the least. Hawkins, BigFurHat – every heterosexual and most of the gays too – are very confused. Mr. Hawkins discovers the very nature of bisexuals – they are gay men who come out slowly over time – and then says “some gays tend to CHOOSE” – without an inkling apparently that bisexuality is crock pot gay … in like in – a load of crock. Gay men will tell you that we’re pretty darn sure that all bisexuals will be gay eventually – or “they’re just hiding behind a beard” as we so inelegantly refer to the lady. Indeed, we have a whole lexicon on the matter – Mr. Hawkins might learn some of this if he talked to gay men in a gay bar, and not just opine upon the matter after comparing notes with other heterosexuals. Oh, he talked to a lesbian! So a straight guy discusses bisexuality with a lesbian – and concludes that some gay men “CHOOSE” to be gay. Meanwhile, 99.9% of all gay men say we’re born this way by God’s good grace. The snippet of conversation:

John Hawkins: Let me ask a related question to this because I thought this was kind of fascinating because it’s so different from what you often hear. In the book, you were talking about how you came to decide that you wanted to be a lesbian and you pretty much framed it in those terms. It was a choice. You were attracted to men and women and you chose to — you just liked women better — would you say that’s common or….

Tammy Bruce: Well, it’s difficult to say because it’s so politically incorrect to ask these questions. It’s one of the reasons why ‘ and I’ve made that discussion in the epilogue ‘ so that…parents (could allow) their children (to read) at their discretion.

…There is such a variety, at least within the community itself, …about why women identify as lesbians, but even what that means.

It is most certainly not difficult to ask these questions – we are asked them all the time. It is ample in the discussion – what is hard to get nowadays is gay men acceding to any portion of what heterosexuals say, and that bugs heterosexuals a great deal. And Ms. Bruce is a bisexual, apparently, who choose to exercise her gay half … and not her straight half. Lesbians are more fluid. Gay men are not. Still, the bisexual is here being discussed – the B in the “community” – but they’re not “gay” – yet are they ½ gay and ½ straight? 60-40? 54-46? 90-10? What is the percentage division? Or is this too fluid? And what does it have to do with the gay men? Lesbians aren’t gay men – we don’t even really hang out with each other.

There are a number of women who identify as lesbians, some of them, somewhat well-known, have regular liaisons with men. …There are some women in the community that you could get to know…who’ve experienced violence at the hands of men and have turned to women for that reason. There are other women who say that they’ve been gay since they’ve been born and that, of course, is also politically incorrect to question or to ask them how or why they know that.

All of this is discussed by the LGBTITSQAGNC community – the endless discussion over what all these things mean are amply apparent to anyone who spends a moment at a gay blog like Queerty and Joe My God and Towleroad and BoxTurtleBulletin… the issue is endlessly discussed by gay men – and you know why? Because gay men think bisexuals are really gay but pretend to be straight from time to time. All gay men are good at pretending – some of us are better, some go all the way to the icky parts – most of just say “Oh, I just don’t have a girl right now,” to cut down on the fuss and muss. The bisexuals say they are really attracted to both – but again, over time – it’s a one way street to gay – and no gay guys are going straight.

If that doesn’t convince you, then ask yourself why so many “gay” Americans end up with kids? In the US, around 37% of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transsexual people have a child, about 60% of which are biological.

This is just arrant mush – I know this from personal experience with hundreds of gay men I’ve known – it would have been impossible to avoid it. I mean, in 40 years of talking to and being friends with gay men the numbers with kids is about 10% … as for the numbers of lesbians – I’m clueless – I don’t know any lesbians. Maybe they’re the 37% he alludes to.

Where could he get such a figure? There’s no count of gay men – or “LGB .. oh, I’m tired of typing it community” … there’s no census – estimates range everywhere – and the 12 – count them – 12 studies done … all admit to massive miscounts, undercounts, margins of errors, unknowns, could be’s and who knows? That to all of a sudden say with such surety that 37% of “gays” – and then he gives the long list of not-gays – have children who are biological is intellectually dishonest … talk about your politically correct refusal to discuss stuff. Go to a gay bar – ask a hundred guys if they had kids – and you simply will NOT find 37 who have had them … or had straight sex. I’d give you 10% at most. Why, it’s a surprise to us it’s so darn rare.

You know – maybe it’s the transgendered who ratchet up Hawkin’s suggested statistic … they’re not gay – they’re heterosexuals – as I discussed just a day or so ago – maybe they had all the kids. And certainly Lesbians always had more kids than gay men – by a factor of 10 to 1 minimally. For every 10 lesbians with kids, maybe 1 gay guy. We’re gay for heavens’ sake, from the get go.

Then, to conclude – Mr. Hawkins goes full Bisexual:

In other words, there are a lot of “gay” Americans having enough straight sex at some point in their lives to produce a kid. Again, it’s clear that there are also people who are “born that way,” but there are an awful lot of gay Americans who don’t fall into that category.

Yes sir, this is what the LG … blah blah community is all about – you have discovered the confusion of the thing, as BigFurHat did, as Tammy Bruce admits to – and so you conflate it all with “gay” when we “gay guys” keep trying to stay away from the rest in real life – and we’re the ones under discussion and being studied so diligently in offices and not out in the field where we might lie in wait. We’re the ones you think can change … because we choose – about which more tomorrow.

Your “gay,” sir – is “bisexual” – congratulations. Now, back to the gay marriage for gay guys who are roundly harassed from time to time for being “born this way.” Thanks.


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